"So how will your article read when the guilty ARE found as such?
How will your article read when you hear of the indifference to innocent life as it was promulgated by some?
Dont (sic) make the mistake the govt. did by assuming all were guilty. Dont (sic) make the mistake too many are making now by assuming all are innocent.
Stay tuned - this show is just gettin' started!
Peace
Mubin Shaikh"
Below is my response to Mr. Shaikh:
"To 'Mubin Shaikh' (If that really is you... I guess there's no way to know for sure. I'm going to respond in the hopes that it is really you),
I'd like to start by saying that I actually think you're brave coming out and speaking up about flaws in the case, for speaking out about your part in the sting, and for being honest about your history. The other mole has kept silent. I've seen you in interviews and you seem like a very likable guy - the kind of guy I could chill with at a Saturday BBQ. Having said that, I feel the same way about George Bush!
Listen, I can't pretend to know all the details - as usual the RCMP are secretive about the details of this case - and you're one of the few who does know a lot of them - perhaps most. I only know what I can dig up for myself.
First off, I am most definitely not making a mistake in "assuming all are innocent" - I have to assume all are innocent under the Canadian Charter of Rights. Anyone who does not is not being a true Canadian. It is up to the Crown to show that they are guilty, and until they do they are completely innocent in my books.
And perhaps you'll forgive my doubts about this case in the light of the fact that this is the third such Canadian mass arrest - the other two cases were thrown out of court COMPLETELY with stern judgments and warnings from the bench against the tactics of RCMP, CSIS, and the Crown. As this case slowly falls apart, I expect no different.
As for the Toronto 18 case that you worked on, the RCMP and CSIS watched these guys for TWO YEARS and without a single chargeable offence occurring - until you two 'moles,' informants, whatever - came along. All of a sudden it's a fast track to fertilizer.
I find it disturbing that you would call this affair a "show," with these poor souls being kept in 23.5 hour-a-day solitary confinement. Remember, the ones just exonerated were kept in these conditions too.
As for how my, "article [will] read when [I] hear of the indifference to innocent life as it was promulgated by some..." You must understand, I do not care if any of these boys were saying scary things. People say scary things every day - even more so about hot topics like this "war on terror" and other political hot potatoes. Canada is a free country and I will fight to the death to allow anyone to say whatever they bloody-well please - no matter how scary or even depraved. It doesn't matter what these people allegedly said!
If you really stop and do your homework, Mr. Shaikh, you will soon see that, in all likelihood, there is NO Al-Qaeda. There is no 'terrorist threat.' Especially to Canada. Until Afghanistan, what did we ever do to them? If there is a threat, it's only because we're over there busting into innocent people's houses and killing or torturing them.
Please watch the excellently researched and accurately reported English documentary, "The Power of Nightmares," and rethink this whole line about Islamic terrorists coming for us in the night. This is not some indy, leftist propaganda piece - it is a report from mainstream English press and has been seen by millions.
You can find it here:
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=4933960062431353720
Keep in mind that if I had written similar articles about the previous two stings on the Pakistanis, I'd have been right. If I'd written one about the ones arrested in Florida - I'd have been right. If I'd written one about Maher Arar - I'd have been right. If I'd written one about Omar Khadr - I'd have been right. If I'd written one about the "liquid bombers" in London - I'd have been right. I could go on, but you get the picture.
You are right about one thing, though: Let's see how my article reads when all is said and done. But, remember, the question for you would be:
How will your life 'read,' having turned these people in, if none of them is found guilty?
PS: Even if they are found guilty - that doesn't mean they did anything wrong. It just means that they wouldn't have won the court case. Two different things - especially when charged under the Anti-Terror Act and already having been tried on TV!
PPS: Should I be scared now? If you are Mubin Shaikh and and you work for CSIS and you've seen my site, will I be reported to CSIS now as a home-grown terrorist? Under the Anti-Terror Act I suppose they could come for me now."
Posts
18 comments:
greetings disobedia!
I too have been blogging on the toronto 18 and had two comments left on my blog, from a person claiming to be Mubin Shaik.
One comment is very similar to the one you have responded to on your own blog:
you'll find the first one here:
http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.com/2008/03/toronto-18-terror-trial-which-was.html#comments
and then the second one, including and e-mail address here:
http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.com/2008/04/toronto-terror-trial-latest.html#comments
what to make of this? who knows? Is it Mubin Shaik? Well his e-mail is there if anyone wants to make contact with whomever, feel free!
btw: have you seen the grass roots style documentary on You Tube, there is lots of Mubin Shaik and more in that one!
It's called Unfair Dealing: The Toronto Homegrown Terror Threat.
I have found it very interesting.
If you missed it, check here on my blog for the link.
http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.com/2008/04/toronto-18-documentary.html#comments
btw: good response to 'Mubin'. It is good to always remember that everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty.
Sincerely:
Penny
Wow!
Well, Penny, I guess you've had the honour too! He must Google his name all the time to find such small-time bloggers like us!
I saw that doc. While it's in dire need of some polish, it's a wonderfully informative doc. I sure feel for those kids.
Thanks for reading!
Thanks for covering this. Most enjoyable reading. What a strange job it must be, this informant mole gig. Probably seems exciting and illicit and fun, with occasional flashes of fear and horror .
Wonder what happens to 'Mubin' when the media attention fades away?
Promotion? Retraining? Sewed into a bag and tossed in the St. Laurence? Back to college?
Lord Reptor.
@Ejneer - I agree about the whole no-Qaeda deal - The Base is likely The Database used by core manipulators of the fool actors that populate the private-violence world stage.
Hopefully, whoever posted under 'Mubin' on your comments was at worst some spotty Ritalin victim working in a CSIS basement, and not anyone playing in the real case.
Even better, just some random freak who caught your story.
Still, you write well - maybe you'll get an interesting job offer from a shadowy figure if you keep rattling cages.
Or they might replace you with a trained actor who would stage your tragic death (not realizing that he himself would be disposed of later, hahahahaa!), after the real you has been interrogated with excellent drugs and then sewed, happily smiling and watching the pretty lights, into a bag and dumped in the river.
Hmmm - better keep a seam ripper hidden on your person at all times and practice resisting all the latest pharmaceuticals as much as possible...
Drooling and raving (something in that hotel coffee, man...)
Lord Reptor.
I agree with your post entirely except for this one paragraph:
"[...] there is NO Al-Qaeda. There is no 'terrorist threat.' Especially to Canada. Until Afghanistan, what did we ever do to them? If there is a threat, it's only because we're over there busting into innocent people's houses and killing or torturing them."
This is inaccurate. Canada was designated a target by 'Al Qaeda' because of its close ties (specifically energy exports) to the US. This is well documented.
There *are* terrorist organizations in Canada, and they are very much active. However, Canada is seen by and large as simply a base to operate out of, as opposed to a target. The fact you are unaware of this is evidence to CSIS' professionalism.
On that point, I would like to remind you that the Afghan war is very much in Canada's national security interest. "What did they do to us?" May I also remind you that Canadians were also victims of the WTC attacks.
You are correct about the politics of fear. I have whole-hearted faith in our intelligence agencies' ability to protect us. Whatever the reason they decided to parade these 18 wannabes to the media for, they are still on top.
enjneer:
Indeed, 'mubin' must google his name, on a regular basis.
It looks like someone is in need of attention, wanting to stay in the spotlight,looking for glory, call it what you may.
which is likely suggestive of one reason, why he offered his 'services'.
Mansour:
You say I am correct about the "politics of fear..." What I am saying - just to be clear - is that fear is being used politically against us - non-existent threates are being paraded in front of us to cow us into accepting profitable (for them) wars and restrictions on personal freedoms. I'm quite clearly saying that.
So how can you have faith in our intelligence services? You are lost if you have faith in CSIS/CIA/FBI/RCMP. What does this Toronto 18 teach us?!? That we cannot trust them!!
As far as Afghanistan goes, Afghanistan did not attack us!!! Even if you believe the government bullshit, Al Qaeda attacked us! The Taliban, in an official communique to Washington, offered to extradite Bin Laden if the US would show their diplomats proof of his guilt!
This message was ignored by the US and its media. I bet you didn't even know about it.
And for Al Qaeda: Your proof that Al Qaeda exists is to state that it was "well documented" that Al Qaeda targeted us.
Of course it was well-documented! That is the whole point! Al Qaeda
is a ghost organisation - a front - a false-flag - a bogeyman. Fronts don't work if nobody hears about them. Bogeymen don't scare us if we're not aware of them.
If by, "well documented" you mean it was all over the news or it's in State Dept. press releases, well those prove nothing except my point.
And you say that I apparently do not know that Canada is "a base to operate out of" and that shows the effectiveness of CSIS's professionalism? I'm not even sure how to reply to this one...
CSIS was created out of public hearings which found that illegal activity and corruption was so rampant in the RCMP that they could not be trusted to run internal security. After four years, that same panel found that CSIS had not done anything different and was ordered to clean house again! I know better than most because my father was part of that house-cleaning. So don't try to tell me about CSIS and the RCMP!
No-one knows if CSIS has been cleaned up (which means it hasn't) and no-one knows how corrupt CSIS is.
You are aware that the CIA has lost lawsuits filed by people suing them over being incarcerated against their will in mental institutions (the biggest was in Montreal) and subjected to attempted brain-washing in the 50s? And this is the organisation you "trust?!"
Tell you what: you sit there with your "faith in our intelligence services" and I'll stay here in my "ignorance" and we'll see who's crying in 10 years' time when the Fuhrer arrives.
PS: Watch that friggin' video, The Power of Nightmares:
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=2798679275960015727
If you haven't seen this then there is nothing ot talk about until you learn your history a bit better.
Good day.
Reptor:
Yeah, you gotta wonder... I think he'll end up either virtually or literally in the sack in the river.
Many times I've tried to imagine what it's like on the "inside." And over and over I picture some poor fool, thinking all this time he's in with the big boys, having that moment of realisation when they off him - either kill him or set him up.
That these people can't see that this is so obviously going to happen makes me feel almost sorry for them. Almost.
Thanks for reading. Stay tuned.
Raptor II:
Thanks man. I've got two different brands of seam-ripper on me at all times, with a third at home for black-tie events.
Yeah, it's so funny to hear from people like mansour (Man -Sour?)... to hear how lost they are. I've talked to otherwise bright folks who actually think that Osama was in charge of the Taliban and ordered them to attack the WTC. I mean, what do you do with these folks? I try, but they just get angry.
THanks for reading and keep coming back. Your comments keep me on my toes!
You think that's bad. Stockwell day {Minister of Public Safety and a low life Conservative} just gave Israeli Mossad free range to go anywhere they want in Canada. It's nothing written on paper, so that was the first clue. Not too long after this little invite, a historic building in Quebec was burned down, so I wonder what else our little jewish friends may have in store for us. I'm not saying jews are responsible, but one must take note on things simply being coincidental and see who benefits more. Curse you to hell Israel if you dare spill any Canadian blood.
I know many are out there who think they have the masses in check, but sane heads always prevail.
"...a very likable guy - the kind of guy I could chill with at a Saturday BBQ. ... I feel the same way about George Bush!"
You're joking, right? How could anyone label this hate-full, murderous warmongerer as "likable"? or want to spend one of life's precious seconds with this embarrassing twit of a preznit?
tquigly:
No I am not joking. There's a difference between a man and his political beliefs/actions. I've never met Shaikh, and, more to point (since you are the one judging him) nor have you.
I've seen multiple interviews with Shaikh and he seems fine. Says he's a partier... same thing with George Bush: I saw a movie made by a journalist following him on the campaign trail. All the journalists practically fell in love with him. Even the ones that hated his politics and thought they hate the man!
Now, I'm not saying I'm inviting Shaikh over to dinner any time soon. He's got blood on his hands and he's got to pay for that. But I'd talk to him - hear his story. After all, this whole thing was not his idea! He's working for someone. And people make mistakes. I get the feeling that Shaikh might be starting to realise the extent of his.
Part of breaking out of this polarised society includes breaking the bonds of judgment and stereotype that have been forced upon us - because that's half of what keeps us fighting - and to start really listening to each other and having dialogue.
Think about it: if we're to make a better world - better than this one we're complaining about, anyway - we're not going to just flip a button - we're going to have to really change some things.
People will have to truly be free to voice their opinions. And we'll really have to listen to them. We'll have to meet people before we judge them - instead of forcing them into narrowly defined "-ist" boxes, like, "terrorist," "anti-semite,"liberal," conservative," "feminist..."
I'm ready. Can you do it?
I'm sorry - which one of you was there with me when I saw what I did?
Hey, who brought the chirping crickets out here?!
Court is on - take notes and compare with what Unfair Dealing claims.
Cant wait to see the looks on your faces when you hear how FAR off the mark Mr. AbdelHaleem was.
Mubin Shaikh
Engineer:
"What does this Toronto 18 teach us?!? That we cannot trust them!!"
Actually, the fact that those 18 was the best the RCMP could come up with shows that, indeed, we can trust CSIS with security.
"I bet you didn't even know about it."
Wrong. Moving on...
"And for Al Qaeda: Your proof that Al Qaeda exists is to state that it was "well documented" that Al Qaeda targeted us."
Nope. When Zawahiri goes on video record explicitely naming Canada as a target, that is proof enough. Please, deny this.
"I know better than most because my father was part of that house-cleaning. So don't try to tell me about CSIS and the RCMP!"
Congratulations, you're a big boy now! I happen to know your daddy's boss. :)
"You are aware that the CIA has lost lawsuits filed by people suing them over being incarcerated against their will in mental institutions (the biggest was in Montreal) and subjected to attempted brain-washing in the 50s? And this is the organisation you "trust?!""
Show me where I said I trust the CIA. Putting words in my mouth doesn't decrease your ignorance.
PS: Get a life. You grill the crackhead informant for Googling his name and yet you reply to your own comments...
PPS: "Tell you what: you sit there with your "faith in our intelligence services" and I'll stay here in my "ignorance" and we'll see who's crying in 10 years' time when the Fuhrer arrives."
Look who's talking about the politics of fear... Hypocrite.
one thing's for sure: its all hearsay xcept from this shaik guy - everything else is uninformed media sources.
To the, "PS: Get a life" guy:
I don't even know where to start with you.
Who are you? You know the boss of CSIS? I can tell you are RCMP, CSIS or related to someone in the policing/security/military field. Because your 'arguments' use NO facts. Just the usual gut-based, personal attacks that come from someone who just WANTS to believe that the good ole RCMP couldn't POSSIBLY be lying to him (even though they've been caught lying over and over).
Or perhaps you're one of the people doing the lying...
I mean, who cares if "Zawahari" threatens Canada? My whole friggin' POINT is that Zawahari and Al-Qaeda and the Toronto 18 (sorry, 11 now) are straw men. They are illusions. So of course he's threatening Canada! We needed to pass the Anti-Terror Law! The government needed everyone scared so they would look to them for help and do what they said. READ the bloody article, buddy!
You sure are brave, posting anonymously and all. Wish I had guts like that.
Tell me, how else am I supposed to respond to asinine comments like yours if you post anonymously?!?! I'd be glad to debate with you one-on-one, if only you had the guts to leave contact info.
"Get a life?!?" Wow. That's a good one. Did my Daddy's boss teach you that line?
Go learn a few things about the world first. Watch "The Power of Nightmares." Read how CSIS was created precisely because the RCMP had become so corrupt that they could no longer function (one of their main rackets was framing innocent people).
Learn the truth, then come back and debate me. I will debate with you based on facts and truth alone. I refuse to engage in these pointless personal matches based entirely off of what you believe.
Good luck,
Enjneer
Who lobbies for terror legistlation-- who controls the Canadian government and the RCMP/CSIS? The UberKikes of the Israel Lobby. It boggles the mind how much trouble Canada is in... everyone is so behind the curve, most people don't even know about The Lobby, fatal ignorance.
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